i suspect. it would like to do is go did you know the price is the only industry specifically mention in the constitution which says that's because a free and open press is critical to our democracy schreck. never go on i'm sorry and on this show we were the a little picture of what's actually going going on we go beyond identifying the problem to try to rational debate in a real discussion critical issues facing america among them are you ready to join the movement then welcome the third. longtime arbonne in washington d.c.

and here's what's coming up tonight on the big picture today south africa and the world celebrating the life of nelson mandela anti-apartheid leader and without statesmen who died yesterday at the age of ninety five but who was the real mandela and why is the american media ignoring his truly radical past more on that in just a moment radio host an actor's job that is and right now the debate in washington is over what can be done to help those in poverty but that's not really the question we should be asking about to come on a porter founder of prosperity works about wiping out poverty all together in tonight's conversations with great minds. never. and never. sadly. there you get. the nest. egg.

that was how nelson mandela concluded his inaugural address as president of south africa on may tenth one thousand nine hundred four but eva as he was affectionate known by millions of his countrymen died thursday at the age of ninety five even in death mandela remains a towering figure a symbol of the enduring values of human dignity and resistance is like us he will live on in the law in the minds and memories of countless people around the globe world leaders begin paying their respects almost immediately after him in dollars passing was announced yesterday afternoon here's how president obama responded to the news. my very first political action the first thing i ever did that involved an issue or policy or politics was a protest against apartheid. i would study his words and his writing. the day he was released from prison. gave me a sense of what human beings can do when they're guided by their hopes and not by

their fears. and like so many around the globe i cannot fully imagine my own wife without the example that nelson mandela set. and so long as i live i will do what i can to learn from him. like president obama many other young americans growing up in the seventy's and eighty's cut their political teeth in the anti-apartheid movement for them mandela a political prisoner for twenty seven years was an icon of perseverance in the face of injustice inspired them then and he continues to inspire them now but mandela wasn't a hero to everyone reagan called him a terrorist and to this day many republicans will not forgive his friendship with cuban leader fidel castro he was actually on the u.s. terror watch list until the last year the george w. bush presidency now more than ever is a time to take a look back at the legacy of nelson mandela and his often complicated relationship with the united states and its leaders for more on this i'm joined now by activist

joe madison host joe madison show on sirius x.m. joe welcome back you know if you reminded me when you were just reciting the way that conservatives. treated nelson mandela and the whole apartheid regime what people fail to remember is that former congressman ron dellums and the former late congressman william gray. both members of the congressional black caucus introduced legislation a bill to sanction south africa economically when took them fifteen years. to get that bill through fifteen years and when it finally passed by the house and the senate ronald reagan vetoed it and then that. house had to turn around and congress turn around and overrode his veto that was

what you heard in part president obama talking about and it's ironic i smiled because the first time that i actually got arrested what we call act of civil disobedience was at the south african embassy. and you know tom. last night i was and i was in columbus and we were paying tribute to rosa parks because the day now some invalid died that december fifth was the same day that the my government bus boycott started the same day and so there was a group paying tribute to congress woman joyce. beatty who represents that history and the thing that was so fascinating is i interviewed last night we did our tribute danny glover who by the way his first act and first awareness of nelson mandela was when he was

a student in college and then two decades later he played nelson mandela but he said you know here's the thing that was that really stuck out in his mind that people called nelson mandela after his release from prison twenty seven years. called him a communist because if you remember when he came to the united states it was to raise money for the a.n.c. and conservatives went bonkers all they called him a communist because he embraced by del castro and he said wait a minute we wanted the united states to be our friend said del castro was there with him what that was our friend was our friend and you called me a communist excuse me he said churchill. and roosevelt embraced stalin during world war two and you called them allies so.

that was the essence of nelson mandela that's the statesmanship that i think is really a major part of his work with see i think so too and his ability to. to bridge divides to to reconcile your irreconcilable to deal with those who absolutely have stated in some cases right to his face and in many cases even far worse than that you know to deal with those who have said that they would not do with him because some ways reminds me of what the current president is our our president is going through and for many of the same reasons right exactly because you know he understood you and you had to cooperate with your enemy to sometimes move the for the greater the greater good and and you know. you hit it right on the head i mean. we were going over quotes of nelson mandela

and he said the reason he was bitter you know people think he wasn't bitter of course he was bitter and but he said he understood that that if i when i walked out of there and decided not to be better decided to free myself i also free the people who put me in jail you have to understand he freed white south africans because their biggest fear their biggest fear was all hell if they get power they're going to do to us what we've done to them all be these over one hundred plus years and he came out and said no and so he was a comfort. to accept common sense even at the risk of of losing quite honestly support from those who felt wait

a minute it's time for revenge it's time for played payback and that was that's that's why south africa progressed the way it did it really i mean his the arc of his life is a remarkable story don't miss byron story there's i'm curious your thoughts on the economics from that i had on my radio show today kind of two different views of mandela from a guest one was a fellow who's now professor at university in durban who was a member of the administration of mandela's from ninety four to ninety seven and in charge of economics and for an economist and and he said that mandela went to the davos meeting i guess it was and one of the meetings and the i.m.f. world bank meetings and came back and said you know let's try this stuff let's let's do this you know kind of open markets free trade stuff and he said basically the chicago boys walked in and said here's how to make your country prosperous and

the mandela administration and this fellow was you know part of that had just kind of bought a lot of that hook line and sinker and the result is that right now poverty is worse than it was when mandela came in and and he said you know this guy was not to blame ben nella for this use of this guy was a politician it was an economist but he said the the these right wing economists have got their teeth into south africa in a way that is tearing the country apart and he said he said i see the same thing in what i read in the international newspapers of what's happening in the united states lawyer and isn't that the robot that you know that people on the left particularly you know you could not be comments are saying about about president obama i mean it's the same thing i i'm not an economist and you know. an elected official a leader that has to cross you know what will our country to prosper but i do agree that somehow economists and elected officials people in charge of public policy

have got to find some way to eliminate income in inequity this is this is just drawing not only the united states middle class but as you've traveled around the world we want to sedan together it is either the very rich we saw the people with the mercedes and lived in homes and the people who literally lived in huts and had nothing and so somehow bad has to be figured now mandela remember he didn't even become president to destroy south back he had to figure out a way to maintain it and then the most difficult part is what president obama is facing now and what quite honestly they're facing throughout europe and mostly around the world is how do you narrow narrow that gap and i think it has to do with getting the predators out there that getting what the predators are i you know i

see this as as in this minute we have left before the break here i see this as as predators coming in to the you know we're fans but savannah south and no offense guns about it that's absolutely right and they you know i was just watching our t.v. for we came on and they were talking about the corruption and how they're trying to suggest it's a modern day phenomenon when really corruption. went haywire during the cold war and that most leaders in africa in parts of your they don't keep their money in their homes you know and these bankers. they protest the pay. and enhance the corruption because they know who's money is who and where and then they run for political and then they run to get out of iran they were the suspect he's going to go on a you know and i'll take charge now i don't at all and you know we'll be right back with more with joe madison right after the break.

i got a quote for you. that's pretty tough. stay with substory if you give this guy like you would smear about john stead of working for the people most issues the mainstream media were pretty much on the bridegroom speech and i. hope it's. a good run but it won't. keep. the peace if it was a. very hard to take i. want to get on the plane fly have you ever had sex with that her thick hair cut.

if. if. if if if if the people.

we're talking about the life and legacy of nelson mandela with radio host and activist joe madison and joe the impact of nelson mandela in the first part of our conversation was really about is. the consequence of him in south africa or around the world what how much impact do you think he and his wife had in the united states arguably i guess that's where we started. think it depends on. on who you talk to and their perspective as i was coming here preparing for this segment i. said the one thing that happened it made people of my generation recognize the impact we can have globally

the plot to that you know the most of our struggle was domesticity it was civil rights it was martin luther king. only an individual there were only a couple individuals i can think of paul robeson w.b. to boys. a mouth a man who you know would go to the united nations and say that discrimination against african-americans negroes in those days was a global issue in the united nations should get involved and but it didn't really register with us what what happened was that south africa in particular the demonstration it kicked off at the south african embassy. if we recognized our it's not a word our global name we recognized look our struggle really is

a global struggle because simultaneous to these civil rights struggle domesticity here in the united states there is you know there was the the the fight against colonist on the continent of africa and south africa was a major a major part of that and so we became global and then you remember college campuses you probably remember this remember we start talking about disinvestment you know and we're you know most of us didn't have a dime in the stock market began colleges but the colleges did and we didn't really know what that you know what all of it meant and people began to couldn't make their relationship. to people thousands of miles away yeah i think it inspires movements to this day and so i think that yes i think that the absolutely it doesn't aspire moment to this day it connects all of us we see and then it's sort

of goes to what martin luther king said at the time that we're we it's a small planet we're a village lobel is now out of that well and speaking to that this is what nelson mandela had to say as he got out of prison taken in one thousand nine hundred ninety pedaling. through and through thank you thank you thank you thank you i think. it was thank you thank you thank you thank you thank you he was a thousand thanks. thanks thanks thanks thanks thanks thanks thanks thanks i was through so he was basically

i'm here for but that's it well that's absolutely right because once again it what he's really saying there is look the base in the only basic difference between all of us is the is biological the amount of melanin in our bodies and that's really the only the attorneys threads are bad so that's all it's that's all they'll basically that's the only everybody all of us want basically the the same thing but what's interesting is that you hear the dates he gives one nine hundred sixty four it goes back to just what we talked about last night in the sixty five sixty six that is absolutely right and all of the incidents of all that that's going to end but see them in the media at the time didn't make those. next ins and so we you know all the sudden we we start reading and connecting and those of us who are fortunate mainly to participate in discussions like we're having now we didn't have this kind of program on t.v.

that you didn't have before that for the most part these kind of discussions that we're we're having now but you know there's a fascinating thing is a young south african called me who was born in one nine hundred eighty two he said that you could be arrested. if you had a photograph of nelson mandela in your home that you never knew who would come into your home you never know who would not down the door and let's go back to the nineteenth sixty's and seventy's most people black people will remember that there were always three photographs on the mantel martin luther king john kennedy and robert can maybe there would be a fourth jesus christ but but but but in south africa. they say that when nelson mandela and others went to prison remember for the life. bake they could not even possess an image of those men they were like ghosts they were gone they with no

intention of ever seeing them again and that's why you had literally tens of thousands of people mostly young people showing up because they wanted to see what this man looked like they had never seen what they never saw and you got to remember in south africa this was the date and this is when they had passed books you had to have a passbook and if you didn't have a pass but this young man told me his father was arrested and was sent to prison for a year for simply not having a passport when he was stopped by the south african police and he could not see the father for one whole year your papers please your papers that's absolutely that's amazing so why in your mind what is the state. in the united states what's the state of race relations in the united states with how we help where how we come how are we doing what do we need to do what lessons can we learn all of the laws

but but it depends it's look first of all racism is global let's just be honest i mean we we know that there are elected officials for example i can think of the woman's name right now in italy who was you know they images of her being a monkey her fellow legislators you know using offensive racial slurs against a situation that just happened in france racism is global and it is it really is about is it not power now how far have we come. i'm fond of saying that in america we are culturally conditioned to believe that white is superior and black is inferior. that's culturally the gilding dick gregory riff that's margaret. and that and that and that unfortunately black is undervalued under estimated in marginal the reality is we

have an entire generation that is being reconditioned culturally they now have gone to school they now work they now live they now marry and guess what they're surviving not only are they surviving but once again we're finding out we all want the same thing like we want liberty we want the pursuit of happiness you know what i think one of the best things i heard president obama say yesterday that just counters with the tea party and other conservatives are trying to suggest and that was that president obama was demanding equal outcome in his speech on the economy it's just that that is a bold faced lie what he said and if you read the text was he was he wants equal opportunity because that's really all people have asked for you you know we know that there's not going to be equal outcome but people should have equal opportunity

and i think that's how we developed time as a as a country and it's a work in progress it's really is a work that will always be people time who will who will feel superior who will have a racial smugness about them and these are the people who are culturally conditioned and culture is a hard thing to over overcome it's so ingrained in us and i've been waiting for to die out happening well and remember remember remember oprah winfrey got in trouble saying that really but you remember she said she said look just like the dinosaurs there know if there's a time when. it just will have to die out i but i think it's i think that's actually what what it's like jack but you have to be very careful before they die. they can do

a lot of damage by it but seat and that's why you see you know you still see this resistance in this country but thank god you had nelson mandela of fascinating to hear him tell felice. who played bill cosby's wife on the cars be show said that said that he and the guard talking about cultural conditioning would watch the cars be shipped. at robyn's prison and when he met felicia reese he said thank you and she said thank me for what we want the cars we show and back show and you soften the heart of my car. see that's the cultural conditioning that i'm talking about earlier is so martin luther king was. a radical i mean martin luther king was outspoken about economic justice both for

blacks and whites he was outspoken about union rights he wanted spoken he was outspoken about american imperialism you know aggressively outspoken are going to all that stuff has been glossed over each why oppose the vietnam war exactly all that stuff has been glossed over in the in general in the corporate media and in the characterizations of martin luther king and it's all been turned into oh it's just about summarized i'm so proud of you and so happy that you are one of the few . television and political analysts that has acknowledged that it will be thank you and in the fifty seconds ago left here how do we avoid that happening with nelson mandela you don't the reality is you don't you have programs like this you have people who understand the. st understand history you got to remember you talk them out of two generations that have parents that don't know the history now that this fascinating this new movies out mandela i

would tell all the young folk listening in some of the older ones who have forgotten go see mandela how many people know it took fifteen years that the united states was one of the last countries to sanction south africa to sanction economic sanctions most of us either have forgotten or you've got two generations that didn't know one thing about it go see mandela go see the fact that he transformed as he went along you know and the reality is in closing the reality is that they pick that part which is most comforting yeah and that's why and that's why we need to keep pushing the the rest of it in this man was a revolutionary he did he was not well and i was so so is jesus there you go there right now i don't know how to say i so much it's always great having. coming out both in a conversation about it economic inequality and as his has to do with how we soften the blow of poverty about how we can make life easier for those struggling to get by what if there were a way to eliminate poverty altogether more on that with on

a poor president and c.e.o. prosperity works insights conversations with great minds right after this break. i would rather ask questions to people in positions of power instead of speaking on their behalf and that's why you can find my show larry king now right here on our t.v. question. i know c.n.n. the m s n b c news have taken some not slightly but the fact is i admire their commitment to cover all sides of the story just in case one of them happens to be accurate. that was funny but it's close enough for the truth from might

think. it's because one full attention and the mainstream media work side by side with you is actually on here. and our teenagers we have a different breed. ok oh yeah because the news of the world just is not this funny i'm not laughing dammit i'm not god. if. you guys stick to the jokes well handled it makes sense that i got to.

welcome to nice conversations with great minds with porter owners known for her powerful no nonsense approach to problem solving and strategy development in such diverse fields as business education health and human services on it is the president and c.e.o. of prosperity works an organization that creates statewide initiatives in new mexico to develop and test high impact strategies to build the opportunities knowledge and relationships required for all new mexicans to achieve economic security and prosperity on the border joins me now in the studio and it's a pleasure to have you with us my pleasure entirely thanks for joining us i'd like to share first a couple of quotes with you the first is is.